Customer and Dancer Humanity Dec 30, 2016 4:05 pm est
All too often, a random blue will come on here and whine about being taken advantage of or conned. Then he invariably goes on to questioning the character and humanity of the girl who purportedly wronged him. But what I think we often forget is how much we, as blues, contribute to the supposed loss of humanity and otherwise predatory nature of strip clubs.
In the first two weeks of December, I had 3 different strippers crying on or to me, each because of her interaction with me.
The first was a girl who I used to take OTC, but will not take out any longer for performance reasons that I will not elaborate on. She ended up being escorted out of the club when the manager saw her harassing me for the better part of an hour (not at my request). The second was a girl who was crying after we were finished in my hotel room because she did not want me or anyone else to think that this is the type of girl that she is (oddly this was her third or fourth time out with me). The third was a girl who agreed to go OTC, but was torn because she couldn't go through with it even though she really needed the money.
Now to get some of the obvious out of the way, none of these three do this as a matter of course. Suffice it to say that I'm a long time regular at their clubs and know the landscape about as well as any customer can. The first two did so because I caught them at the right time - they are both mothers and need extra stuff at certain times of year for their kids. The third is in the same boat and was facing a holiday without Xmas presents for her kids. Now maybe pity hustling was part of the angle for at least the third one, but I know for a fact that her need was real enough.
The worst part though is that, in the moment, all I could think about is how all of this crying was dampening my fun buzz. I wasn't angry, but rather just cold. Over the years, I have also found myself getting ever better at assessing and even manipulating OTC targets through quiet kindness, even as that kindness was only surface deep.
Seriously now, if it wasn't for the latent guilt that I am starting to feel after having 3 different girls crying on me in a two week stretch, I'd start to wonder if I was becoming a sociopath. But the sad reality is that it took something like this to even make me think about this stuff at all. I have since stayed out of the clubs for the last couple of weeks while I sort it out. I am not inclined to feel guilty about what two grown adults agree to with each other, but three crying ladies in two weeks...
Does anyone else question whether long-term strip club attendance is affecting your humanity at all? Is it making anyone a bit colder or harder than you used to be?
12-30-2016, 04:14 PMwhirlerz
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Well, I'm probably not the one who should speak to this, but men have been F'n us over since the dawn of time (& yea, vice versa)..
If you were so concerned, why not just tip them extra? I know, cause you wanted something too.
Like I said, not what you were looking for, answer - wise.
Happy New Year RD
12-30-2016, 04:24 PMrickdugan
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlerz View Post
If you were so concerned, why not just tip them extra? I know, cause you wanted something too.
Honestly, in the moment I wasn't remotely concerned, at least not about them. All I could think about was how the crying was affecting my entertainment, which is kinda' why i posed the question to begin with. In the cold sober light of day, I started to question myself. Maybe it is better if I don't.
And Happy New Year to you as well!
12-30-2016, 04:44 PMDeathAndTaxes
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
This is not a question of stripclub ethics per se but overall personal interaction. There will always be relationship imbalances, I am at the point in my life where it is 99% of the time will be me that has all the power, (even the best hustle I have read here would never work on my worst day).
So in order not to lose my humanity I simply strive for one simple goal. Make sure she is better off now than when we started. It does not matter if it is emotionally, financially, or simply wiser.
I am not necessarily a fan of the deep hustle that I see promoted here, specifically the type that actively tries to drain life savings. Even in a consensual relationship the imbalances are potentially too great that can cause permanent harm to the weaker side. On the same token I am against the red pill mentality of literally creating subservience, even with sex workers.
I am not casting judgement, heck maybe it is just a farce to keep your game face on, which is vital for your income, all I am saying is that uncle Ben was right with great power comes great responsibility.
12-30-2016, 04:50 PMWe had a rabbit like you
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Oh yikes, crying/bitching in front of customers...big no no. I dont think that makes you sociopathic though. But I think both dancers and custies can become very predatory/almost inhuman towards each other and it's one of my least favorite aspects of the job.i don't hate the (polite, decent) customers and I don't see why it can't be kept professional and civil. I offer a service, this is the price, I perform to the best of my abilities and we keep it professional and straight up. Idk why it sometimes has to get so hateful. The minute I start HATING the customers and feeling bitter and vindictive is the day I quit and I don't believe in lying about being their gf or marrying them..and I appreciate the same respect.
12-30-2016, 05:46 PMDonaDiabla
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Seriously, I do not understand why customers like yourself always are down on deep hustles? Frankly, this is the adult industry and it is not about falling in love nor becoming friends. This about men getting off and people getting paid off that. If a customer or sex worker does not understand this....then they are in a rude awakening! So, stop acting like it some great ethical dilemma when this is just industry pumping out illusions and fantasies of men. Now, some sex workers love making friends and boyfriends with customers.However, many of us run a clean service within the boundaries and people buy this service. Sure, there are some sex workers who become apex predators or black widows. They used this industry to take out their various issues with men, sexuality, or society.
Likewise, some customers are serious sickos, maniacs, and other scumbags. Who uses this industry to take out of their various perversions on women. Nevertheless, many of us including myself hustle cleanly and fairly. Just like many customers come to have a good time with sexy people and enjoy themselves. In addition, I am sick of blue members talking about that red pill shit! If they were man enough, then they would not need such a philosophy.That red pill mentality is for weak crybabies and sissy fake alphas who hide behind their penis to gain power and control.That has nothing to do with men's rights but with the rights of male adult children angry for hiding between their mother's skirts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
This is not a question of stripclub ethics per se but overall personal interaction. There will always be relationship imbalances, I am at the point in my life where it is 99% of the time will be me that has all the power, (even the best hustle I have read here would never work on my worst day).
So in order not to lose my humanity I simply strive for one simple goal. Make sure she is better off now than when we started. It does not matter if it is emotionally, financially, or simply wiser.
I am not necessarily a fan of the deep hustle that I see promoted here, specifically the type that actively tries to drain life savings. Even in a consensual relationship the imbalances are potentially too great that can cause permanent harm to the weaker side. On the same token I am against the red pill mentality of literally creating subservience, even with sex workers.
I am not casting judgement, heck maybe it is just a farce to keep your game face on, which is vital for your income, all I am saying is that uncle Ben was right with great power comes great responsibility.
12-30-2016, 05:46 PMwhirlerz
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
I look @ it like this..None of us really wants to do X to get z, but we do, unless we're the rare ones that really enjoy X (even so, some days are better than others, some aspects of X we may not like)
Have to put on the game face tho?
At least try to delay the negative emotions til they can be processed/dealt w better?
12-30-2016, 05:59 PMDeathAndTaxes
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaDiabla View Post
Seriously, I do not understand why customers like yourself always are down on deep hustles? Frankly, this is the adult industry and it is not about falling in love nor becoming friends. This about men getting off and people getting paid off that. If a customer or sex worker does not understand this....then they are in a rude awakening! So, stop acting like it some great ethical dilemma when this is just industry pumping out illusions and fantasies of men. Now, some sex workers love making friends and boyfriends with customers.However, many of us run a clean service within the boundaries and people buy this service. Sure, there are some sex workers who become apex predators or black widows. They used this industry to take out their various issues with men, sexuality, or society.
Likewise, some customers are serious sickos, maniacs, and other scumbags. Who uses this industry to take out of their various perversions on women. Nevertheless, many of us including myself hustle cleanly and fairly. Just like many customers come to have a good time with sexy people and enjoy themselves. In addition, I am sick of blue members talking about that red pill shit! If they were man enough, then they would not need such a philosophy.That red pill mentality is for weak crybabies and sissy fake alphas who hide behind their penis to gain power and control.That has nothing to do with men's rights but with the rights of male adult children angry for hiding between their mother's skirts.
I said I was not casting judgement, and frankly the only thing I am opposed to is willingly draining life savings. Red pillers are bitter bitter people that lost their humanity long ago. They need more pity than anything.
In the end I know you gals are not black widows, even in the most depraved circumstances I take it with a grain of salt everything you say. I mostly think it was just putting on a game face, trust me I know how game face is life. Another is that you might also just want to warn customers here of what you have the power to do. Still worst case scenario you take their children's college fund, it's just money you will deposit it back later, right? After lesson learned
12-30-2016, 06:27 PMDonaDiabla
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Oh honey, you are very naive to believe that there are not black widows and other predators in this industry. Also, how long have you been a sex worker and what is your hustle? That right....you are not a sex worker and you never ran any type of hustle. I just love customers who never worked in this industry but know every hustle around, right?
Maybe you should work in this industry for 13 years and see if you can hustle hundreds of guys per month? Then let's see how long you shall last, babydoll.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
I said I was not casting judgement, and frankly the only thing I am opposed to is willingly draining life savings. Red pillers are bitter bitter people that lost their humanity long ago. They need more pity than anything.
In the end I know you gals are not black widows, even in the most depraved circumstances I take it with a grain of salt everything you say. I mostly think it was just putting on a game face, trust me I know how game face is life. Another is that you might also just want to warn customers here of what you have the power to do. Still worst case scenario you take their children's college fund, it's just money you will deposit it back later, right? After lesson learned
12-30-2016, 06:32 PMarielbriel
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
This is not a question of stripclub ethics per se but overall personal interaction. There will always be relationship imbalances, I am at the point in my life where it is 99% of the time will be me that has all the power, (even the best hustle I have read here would never work on my worst day).
So in order not to lose my humanity I simply strive for one simple goal. Make sure she is better off now than when we started. It does not matter if it is emotionally, financially, or simply wiser.
I am not necessarily a fan of the deep hustle that I see promoted here, specifically the type that actively tries to drain life savings. Even in a consensual relationship the imbalances are potentially too great that can cause permanent harm to the weaker side. On the same token I am against the red pill mentality of literally creating subservience, even with sex workers.
I am not casting judgement, heck maybe it is just a farce to keep your game face on, which is vital for your income, all I am saying is that uncle Ben was right with great power comes great responsibility.
This is why Hustle Hut needs to be private and closed off to all blues.
12-30-2016, 06:32 PMDonaDiabla
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Yes, girl, I agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by arielbriel View Post
This is why Hustle Hut needs to be private and closed off to all blues.
12-30-2016, 07:07 PMDeathAndTaxes
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaDiabla View Post
Oh honey, you are very naive to believe that there are not black widows and other predators in this industry. Also, how long have you been a sex worker and what is your hustle? That right....you are not a sex worker and you never ran any type of hustle. I just love customers who never worked in this industry but know every hustle around, right?
Maybe you should work in this industry for 13 years and see if you can hustle hundreds of guys per month? Then let's see how long you shall last, babydoll.I am sorry that I offended, it was not my intention. I am not asking any of you to change, nor do I think any less of you just because I know how the sausage is made. In the end I trust all of you to do what is ultimately right. If not I would not even be here quite frankly.
12-30-2016, 07:32 PMmiss.a.p1600
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
The problem is you are selecting dancers in dire need at holiday time. So they're not going to be acting normal they're going to be stressed as fuck and you spending time with them means you'll more than likely be dealing with their baggage - either directly or indirectly. We all have baggage but showing it out of context is more likely to happen when someone is under excessive stress, etc.
They can probably pick up on your coldness too.
Also I'm assuming some dancers who moonlight otc don't consider themselves as escorts. So she is probably struggling with her identity, morals, and how others view her.
Maybe you wanted to help them out and let them "help" you but I think if you were to have selected otc dancers that were less stressed / more emotionally balanced then there would have been less crying / meltdowns and more fun.
I get it though cause when you pay for the fantasy that's what you want not a sad crying depressed person.
Also Maybe they are too comfortable with you?
Does this make me question humanity? No. It makes me get better at reading people seeing them for what they are and avoiding them if they're too negative etc. Only a small percentage acts like sociopaths.
And most men aren't good at consoling a crying woman (unless they're already emotionally attached to her).
12-30-2016, 09:00 PMGenoveve
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Tbh it's not your apathy towards these women's tears that makes you seem like a sociopath because I mean, I wouldn't really give a shit if someone I didn't know extremely well was crying in front of me. It's that you purposely seek out women when you know they're vulnerable to get them to do things that they normally wouldn't that is what's creepy, which is what I assume you meant by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
Now to get some of the obvious out of the way, none of these three do this as a matter of course. Suffice it to say that I'm a long time regular at their clubs and know the landscape about as well as any customer can. The first two did so because I caught them at the right time - they are both mothers and need extra stuff at certain times of year for their kids. The third is in the same boat and was facing a holiday without Xmas presents for her kids.
I haven't stripped in ages but on cam there's a special breed of customer who gets off on seeing what humiliating things they can get a girl to do for money, to see how desperate the chick is basically, and I would lump you into that category.
12-30-2016, 09:53 PMrickdugan
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genoveve View Post
Tbh it's not your apathy towards these women's tears that makes you seem like a sociopath because I mean, I wouldn't really give a shit if someone I didn't know extremely well was crying in front of me. It's that you purposely seek out women when you know they're vulnerable to get them to do things that they normally wouldn't that is what's creepy, which is what I assume you meant by this:
I haven't stripped in ages but on cam there's a special breed of customer who gets off on seeing what humiliating things they can get a girl to do for money, to see how desperate the chick is basically, and I would lump you into that category.
Genoveve, I've been kicking around this board for 6 1/2 years now and I've always been a straight shooter, even to my detriment at times. My gig is the same as it has always been, which is to be entertained by girls who are a combination of attractive, engaging and down-to-earth. I often spend my time with some of the hottest girls in their respective clubs. I could find easier targets than the ones I choose to spend time with if vulnerability was the primary criterion. Sometimes things never goes beyond barside tipping and I'm fine with that. But I've made no bones about the fact that, if I am enjoying a girl ITC and I sense the opportunity to take it further, I'll make the move. And yes, sometimes I will wait in the weeds until she is comfortable with me and she finds herself needing more than she can make ITC, for whatever reason. But until recently I never felt bad about that as we are all grown adults. My goal is not-so-clean drama-free fun with an attractive girl that I enjoy spending time with - nothing more.
I posted on here because I was starting to question myself after having 3 girls crying in a two week stretch. I still am. Specifically, I was questioning whether the increase in this type of occurrence, along with my lack of human reaction to it, may be a sign that clubbing in the way that I do has made me harder or colder. I'm hoping that we can discuss something like this candidly without it going to a place like that, but I suppose time will tell.
12-30-2016, 10:16 PMwhirlerz
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Well, like it was said, it's a stressful time of year, maybe they got caught up in that, maybe there was something triggered in them about the sitch or you( not saying it was deliberate on your part)
Speaking for myself, I am highly sensitive, I've gotten better @ hiding it over the years but depending on my stress level & other factors emotional signs will come out
12-30-2016, 10:39 PMGenoveve
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
I posted on here because I was starting to question myself after having 3 girls crying in a two week stretch. I still am. Specifically, I was questioning whether the increase in this type of occurrence, along with my lack of human reaction to it, may be a sign that clubbing in the way that I do has made me harder or colder. I'm hoping that we can discuss something like this candidly without it going to a place like that, but I suppose time will tell.
Well if you have done nothing wrong I don't understand why you would feel like you should feel guilty. I might be the wrong person to comment because I am an extremely unsympathetic person, even towards myself, but in the same situations I would probably only feel annoyance as well. In line with what I was saying earlier though, I think that you being able to be aroused when you know the women are only fucking you for Christmas money is more questionable. I understand that it's common knowledge that anyone who is having sex for money is doing it solely to make money and that any mature adult will get that it's solely a business transaction, but it still takes a special breed of guy that can hear a chick crying about needing X-mas money for her kids and still get hard IMO, whether she is going for the pity hustle or not.
12-30-2016, 10:49 PMwhirlerz
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Well, I feel that guys view sex & feelings in a different way than women do..Mostly we're more emotional about it, & they aren't..They may or may not be sympathetic but still feel sexual anyways
At least in my experience
12-30-2016, 11:29 PMDeathAndTaxes
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
A pity hustle is bold, it's kinda like betting the farm. You may get a bigger tip but you probably lose a regular. I don't pay for sex, but picturing myself in a similar scenario I would rather talk to her, than tip her more.
And yeah it kinda has a mind of its own.
12-30-2016, 11:32 PMwhirlerz
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
I don't think he's talking about a pity hustle
12-30-2016, 11:50 PMgameover
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
I don't feel like I've been hardened to feelings with women outside of the club. But I'm pretty much immune to stripper tears by now. Over the years, I've seen just about every con attempted by strippers, some of which I've fallen for in my earlier days. Some, I think can cry on demand. At any rate, I'll politely listen to their problems, and console them as best I can, but I've become somewhat distrustful of stripper intentions, so I treat my OTC as a simple pleasurable business transaction, and I move on when they try to draw me into their real life problems.
Frankly, most of the dancers problems I hear about, seem to be mostly self-inflicted through their choices. There is no point in trying to help most of them, until they change those life decisions which put them in crisis mode at the end of every month.
I try to avoid those, and just do take out with the ones that seem to have their acts together. As I read this, it does seem a bit cold-blooded, but I think you either build that protective shell, or you can't continue to visit clubs. Or else you end up broke and divorced.
12-31-2016, 12:32 AMDonaDiabla
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
DeathAndTaxes, I was not offended
I was just letting you know that there is more than meets the eye in hustling. LOL Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAndTaxes View Post
I am sorry that I offended, it was not my intention. I am not asking any of you to change, nor do I think any less of you just because I know how the sausage is made. In the end I trust all of you to do what is ultimately right. If not I would not even be here quite frankly.
12-31-2016, 12:40 AMGenoveve
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlerz View Post
Well, I feel that guys view sex & feelings in a different way than women do..Mostly we're more emotional about it, & they aren't..They may or may not be sympathetic but still feel sexual anyways
At least in my experience
While I definitely agree that sex tends to be way less emotional for men than it is for women that's not exactly what I'm talking about here. In general I feel like the number one thing that puts men off from paying for sex(well maybe aside from the $$$ LOL) is the fact that knowing it's solely about money for the woman is a huge turn-off. I'm sure that for escorts a huge part of what they do is keeping up the illusion that they love what they do and genuinely enjoy their time spent with their customers, just like a huge part of my job is acting like I genuinely enjoy seeing my customer shove a paintbrush all the way down his urethra(it happened earlier). And the reason for that is because it being otherwise would be a huge turn-off to the customer. While I am positive that there's plenty of guys who have no problem banging a chick knowing full-well that the only reason she is doing it is for Christmas money for her kids, there's also a lot of guys who would have a huge problem with that and would never want to do it, and I do personally consider the former to be indicative of an emotional/psychological dysfunction. Probably not what the OP wanted to hear but he did ask.
12-31-2016, 01:01 AMDonaDiabla
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Normally, I try to stay out threads about emotions and humanity. However, I believe that those dancers were already stressed out and maybe got triggered by something. Maybe your coldness made them feel a certain type of way? You know, the holidays are a stressful time for many people and they could not suppressed their emotions any longer. Personally, I do not believe that you are a sociopath but simply harden by their tears. Professionally, I would have kept it light-hearted and finished my work. I do not let negative emotions get to me during my cam shows, phone sessions, and etc.. I just think about being an entertainer and making money. But that is just me
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
All too often, a random blue will come on here and whine about being taken advantage of or conned. Then he invariably goes on to questioning the character and humanity of the girl who purportedly wronged him. But what I think we often forget is how much we, as blues, contribute to the supposed loss of humanity and otherwise predatory nature of strip clubs.
In the first two weeks of December, I had 3 different strippers crying on or to me, each because of her interaction with me.
The first was a girl who I used to take OTC, but will not take out any longer for performance reasons that I will not elaborate on. She ended up being escorted out of the club when the manager saw her harassing me for the better part of an hour (not at my request). The second was a girl who was crying after we were finished in my hotel room because she did not want me or anyone else to think that this is the type of girl that she is (oddly this was her third or fourth time out with me). The third was a girl who agreed to go OTC, but was torn because she couldn't go through with it even though she really needed the money.
Now to get some of the obvious out of the way, none of these three do this as a matter of course. Suffice it to say that I'm a long time regular at their clubs and know the landscape about as well as any customer can. The first two did so because I caught them at the right time - they are both mothers and need extra stuff at certain times of year for their kids. The third is in the same boat and was facing a holiday without Xmas presents for her kids. Now maybe pity hustling was part of the angle for at least the third one, but I know for a fact that her need was real enough.
The worst part though is that, in the moment, all I could think about is how all of this crying was dampening my fun buzz. I wasn't angry, but rather just cold. Over the years, I have also found myself getting ever better at assessing and even manipulating OTC targets through quiet kindness, even as that kindness was only surface deep.
Seriously now, if it wasn't for the latent guilt that I am starting to feel after having 3 different girls crying on me in a two week stretch, I'd start to wonder if I was becoming a sociopath. But the sad reality is that it took something like this to even make me think about this stuff at all. I have since stayed out of the clubs for the last couple of weeks while I sort it out. I am not inclined to feel guilty about what two grown adults agree to with each other, but three crying ladies in two weeks...
Does anyone else question whether long-term strip club attendance is affecting your humanity at all? Is it making anyone a bit colder or harder than you used to be?
12-31-2016, 01:10 AMwhirlerz
Re: Customer and Dancer Humanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaDiabla View Post
Normally, I try to stay out threads about emotions and humanity. However, I believe that those dancers were already stressed out and maybe got triggered by something. Maybe your coldness made them feel a certain type of way? You know, the holidays are a stressful time for many people and they could not suppressed their emotions any longer. Personally, I do not believe that you are a sociopath but simply harden by their tears. Professionally, I would have kept it light-hearted and finished my work. I do not let negative emotions get to me during my cam shows, phone sessions, and etc.. I just think about being an entertainer and making money. But that is just me
I mean yeah, this^! Not just in sex work, but everything, really..you really gotta keep the emotional out of things
The other day I was in a store, I got emotional about something, I was talking to a sales person, I stopped a sec,(tried to refrain but couldn't) shed a few tears & went on.
I was embarassed, I didn't want to do that, but it happened, I went on & that was it. The lady didn't react too much, which was good there were other customers around & it would've fucked up their shit too.
